Josh Jupiter discussed the benefits of low-dose 5-MeO, emphasizing its gentler approach to psychedelic experiences. He highlighted the importance of nervous system awareness, trauma-informed practices, and the potential for low doses to support psychological work and emotional processing. Jupiter shared his personal journey, including his first psychedelic experience at 16, debilitating panic attacks, and transition from film production to psychedelic integration coaching. He cited a study by Ari Franklin and Axel Davids, noting increased mindfulness, cognitive flexibility, and therapeutic compatibility with low doses. Jupiter also stressed the importance of titration, safety, and individual sensitivity.

Transcript:

Josh Jupiter  00:03

Cool. So welcome everybody. Thank you so much for being here. This talk is called less is more nervous system aware work with five Meo. So before we get started, just a quick disclaimer. The information presented in this talk is intended for educational and informational purposes only. It does not constitute for medical, psychological, legal or therapeutic advice. While the topics discussed may relate to therapeutic practices, psychedelic substances and consent, none of the content should be interpreted as medical guidance or recommendations for medical treatment, diagnosis or legal action. So who's this talk for? Right? So let's say you're curious about five Meo, but want a gentler, safer, titrated approach. Maybe you prefer nervous system, aware trauma, informed frameworks. Perhaps you've had an overwhelming or confusing psychedelic experience in the past. Maybe you work professionally with healing therapy or integration, and maybe you're exploring psychedelics later in life and want a slower, digestible pathway. Or perhaps you're just curious. And if you're like me, you like to have some science and data to back up the things that a lot of people might be saying out there, it can be all. It can be common to hear a lot of things, a lot of stories, a lot of anecdotal things, personal experiences. And for me, it really helps me to have some science and data to back up claims. I

02:06

you so a little bit about me.

Josh Jupiter  02:09

I'm Josh Jupiter, also known as Joshua Jupiter. I go by either or I'm the founder of Brooklyn balance LLC. I'm a psychedelic integration coach and facilitator. I do consulting work, and I'm an entrepreneur. So in 2003 I had my first life changing experience with psychedelics. I was about 16 or 17 years old, and here in New York City, and you know that experience really did change my life, but what I didn't have was the tools to integrate the experience. So later on, in 2008 when I graduated from college with a degree in film production, I suffered debilitating panic attacks, and I went on SSRIs in 2016 eight years later, I weaned myself off of SSRIs, and I began to explore psychedelics with my therapist and community members. In 2020 I got burnt out from film production, I pushed pause and pursued a new path. Today, in 2022 I founded this organ, my organization, Brooklyn, balance LLC. I did the maps training in 2023 along with tam integrations 12 month certification program. And today, I'm a full time psychedelic integration service provider. I value freedom, and I'm very I'm strategic about the future and finding way, ways to adapt, to change as well. And there's some photos here too. Here's a photo of Rick Doblin and I this is some community members that I at a gathering, and about once a semester, I am a guest teacher at NYU.

04:10

So why this talk, right? So

Josh Jupiter  04:15

what I, you know, put in the chat. What do you think when you think of five Meo, like, what's the first thing that comes to mind?

04:29

Powerful, intense,

Josh Jupiter  04:36

beautiful, yeah, these are all. These are all very accurate. And you know, what also comes to my mind is like ego death, right? The white cloud, you know, but emerging research and clinical experiencing experiences are showing that low doses support psychological work. Some. Atticum, winding emotional processing, and it allows for a gentler integration, friendly pathway. Brian says, my only experience has been step wise. I guess I'd say individual. Each experience is so unique, person to person. Absolutely yes, nothing is cookie cutter. For sure. We're all unique in our own way. And so, you know, we often might think of like blast off like a rocket ship. What what a gentler approach can be? Is softer, nicer, maybe safer. So you know, we we mentioned powerful, intense, beautiful, oh, yeah, someone mentioned toad in the chat. Mark, right. So, boof five, MEO, Bufo, same thing. However, Bufo comes from the toad, and the Toad is going extinct. And so if you're curious, it's it can be a bit of a civic ethical duty to try to find to be with the synthetic, save the toad. And so, you know, when it comes to the full dose. You know, honoring the power of the medicine, but explain the risks of bypassing the nervous system, right? Someone might have a full dose and have a huge cathartic release. Someone might go into a white out. They might have a really big breakthrough. Be disillusioned, be obliterated. But that's not required for healing. That might be some people's preference, and it's not required for healing. So what low dose five Meo can be is subtle, somatic, emotional, digestible, relational. Low doses can help open a window without tearing off the hinges. It can allow for psycho lytic experience versus psychedelic and when it comes to, well, if you're not familiar with the term psycholytic, it's, it's being present and being able to talk while still with the medicine. So low gentle experience, maybe, if you're familiar with ketamine and you've had a low dose of ketamine, or perhaps if you take in a micro dose of mushrooms, there can perhaps be a similar effect.

Josh Jupiter  08:01

So there was a study conducted. I'm really into this study. It's called low five for psycholytic therapy study, and it was by Ari Franklin and Axel Davids of the pattern project. If you go to the pattern project.ca, you can read about it all there, and here are some bullet points, right? So what constitutes a low dose? So less than two milligrams of vaporized five Meo, DMT, the effects last anywhere between 10 and 20 minutes. It's compatible with standard therapy sessions. One might experience increased mindfulness, emotional processing, cognitive flexibility, titration, friendly, the ability to work your way up and therapy compatible, right? Able to work out some of the things going on that you and your therapist or your coach are working on, right? And it can be done in a shorter amount of time, rather than a full day. So you know, if one is working with like a really large dose, it might be a few hours, it might be more of a preparation, it might be more of an experience, and it might that person might need some time, maybe an hour, maybe two, before they can safely go home, if you know or whatever works for them. Well, a low dose, gentler passes through calmer if. For any reason, there is any dig dysregulation, it can be spotted and calmed down sooner. So I learned about this study earlier this year, back in June at the maps conference, and I'm just letting a couple of people in. And so you know what? What was entailed in it was these clinicians interviewed 11 clinicians and physicians and psychotherapists social workers, right? They did this study. And so what they found out was there wasn't this overwhelming effect, that it was short, that it was contained, and that there was this window for normal therapy session. They saw that the therapeutic qualities were remarkably stable, and the clinicians reported increases in all the things listed here, mindfulness, cognitive flexibility, therapy, compatibility. People became more aware and less rigid, less rigid, particularly in their patterns, allowing them to integrate more fully and make the changes in their life that they need to for living better. So the low dose work allowed them to adjust the experience in real time based on the person's capacity, rather than pushing through for a breakthrough. And a really significant thing was the clients, the people that were in this study, stayed present, and they could be in the experience. So things were, things like, ifs somatic work and mindfulness were able to be facilitated and conducted during or shortly after the experience. So what low means, right? So when people hear low dose, the first question I often hear is, what does that actually mean? And it's a good question, because with five Meo dose really determines the entire shape of the experience in the research I mentioned on the last slide, the clinicians generally described low five as very small amounts in the range of what they called psycholytic doses. So these doses are intended to soften the system, not overwhelm. And I really emphasize like not overwhelming, because it's it's often heard that five Meo can be overwhelming, overpowering, maybe for some, maybe not a low dose is not going, is likely not to produce a full ego dissolution experience with a full dose, we can often hear I had an ego death, But this 10 to 20 minute window of emotional and somatic cognitive openness can really create a more gentler effect for people to go in and hone in on things rather than just lose control. So low dose is not necessarily a number, it's a response. So what feels low for one person can be too much for someone with trauma, anxiety or a sensitive nervous system. This is why clinicians emphasize titration, meaning you start extremely small, observe the system, see how it responds and adjust slowly within a supportive container. They also noted that the intention with low dose work is very different. You're not trying to break through or blast off. You're trying to stay present, relational and embodied. You're looking for subtle shifts, increased mindfulness and all, all of the gentle things to bring us closer to our healing path. So we're not chasing intensity. We're talking about finding the point where the nervous system can stay open without destabilization. For me, I might call that like an unwinding, an unraveling, a loosening, so that we can enter a range of change. Too much, we might go into the harm zone, and too little, we just we don't feel anything. I. Yeah, so, you know, I've already mentioned this a couple of times. You know, increased mindfulness can create more agency, more emotional processing, right? Having a good cry, having a good laugh, can give some relief, flexibility, less rigidness, more softness, new perspectives, why the nervous system matters right? High doses can blow people out of the window, collapse or overwhelm. Maybe go into the harm zone, right? We're stable. We find a range of change, but we don't want to overwhelm the nervous system too much. Low doses allow for titration, pendulation, relational presence. Right? And with that, we can do some nervous system practices. We can orient ourselves. We can anchor our breath. We can co regulate. We can regulate with others. We can regulate with ourselves. We can give or receive grounding, touch. We can do slow movements, resourcing, in a time where we're more malleable, more neuroplasticity, in conjunction with integration coaching or therapy, right? Doing things like parts work, ifs Shadow Work, narrative reflection and pacing integration makes subtle experiences potent and helps create little milestones or little steps along the way. So

17:03

okay, so, you know, I'm gonna,

Josh Jupiter  17:07

I'm gonna share a personal story. And this is like, this is why this work is like, why I'm passionate about this work, why, you know why and how I chose to get into this work. But you know, early in the talk I talked about I worked in film production, and I got burnt out, and I went on my spiritual journey, and someone I knew well and trusted referred me to work with a shaman. They said that their experience working with them was 10 years of therapy in a day. Now today, I know that when I hear 10 years of therapy in a day, that's a huge red flag. But back then, you know, I was just eager. I was just like, I want to do this. So, you know, I rushed into working with this person. One person told me, Go work with this person. I had a quick chat with them, got on a plane, flew to Sedona, Arizona, and I, you know, I really learned a lesson in too much, too fast. And basically what happened was, you know, this person was really trying to push me. They were really trying to get me to do more than I was meant for or what I was comfortable with. There was manipulation. And so, you know, there was a moment where I realized I need to get out of here. I need to stop working with this person, because I'm, you know, I'm a bit on the edge of things, and I know my body, and I know my mind, and and I want to push pause. And so, you know, I had to do that, and I had to stop working with that person during the days that I said I would, and they were not happy about it. And for me, being in a sensitive place, having worked with a couple of different medicines. I was much, much more sensitive. My system was much more sensitive, and I found the experience to be the experience to be traumatic and destabilizing, and it took me some time to get through that. And you know, I have a lot of gratitude for the people that I had peer support at the time. I had people in my life at the time I could reach out to for help, and I had other teachers and mentors here back in New York that I could reflect with. And the experience was still agitating. And pretty traumatic for me. So I learned a big lesson in going slow, being safe and really building a really building a container that matters with slowly and with intentionality. So you know, if you're considering working with five Meo there, there are plenty of risks and Contra indications. Do you take any prescription medications? Right? Have you had a another recent psychedelic experience that maybe was too soon, like MDMA? Do you take certain pain medications, antibiotics, lithium, right? A low dose does not eliminate risk. It can just help reduce overwhelm. How's your heart your cardiovascular system, your blood pressure? I do you have hypertension, arrhythmia, heart disease, history of seizures, respiratory depression, these are all serious things to consider. How are you in a acute crisis or a serious crisis, suicidal ideations, bipolar, psychosis, history, unstable nervous system. Does it take you a while to get back to baseline after being triggered? No?

Speaker 1  21:40

Or,

Josh Jupiter  21:44

you know, is there any bypass or like this, desire to have an exorcism at a catharsis level, that's a thing.

Josh Jupiter  22:01

And you know, if you're not sure and you want to speak with a medical professional, I highly recommend Dr Ben Malcolm, the spirit pharmacist, you can do an online consultation and go through, you know, Is this safe for me, with a, you know, a trained medical professional, right? And so what? When you know what red flags might be there when not to proceed, do you feel pressured? Are you or your facilitator or someone else trying to force a breakthrough? Keep going, keep going. More and more and more. Nana, you feel disassociated before starting. Are you present? Are you really there? You know? Is this association or zoning out? Is you know, history becoming safe again, and it can happen. So really making sure that there's grounding and that there's presence, does your facilitator discourage questions? Do they say something like, Oh, you're getting your head too much, or you're not there yet. There's no screening. Show up, come on over. There's no integration plan. There's no consent based culture. And so why Less is more, right? So integrate into daily life can be simpler. We avoid overwhelm, we support trauma resolution. We're not seeking to create more trauma. We're aiming to heal, reduce trauma. Encourage agency with you. Deepen embodiment, build capacity and create sustainable transformation, right? So what does low dose five emo actually feel like? Right? So subtle doesn't necessarily mean small. There can be a softening, emotional opening, subtle vibrational shifts, a micro, micro unraveling. I really like the term unraveling. Breath expansion, gentle presence, quiet insights, you know, and when it comes to unraveling, medicines are a tool. You know, I'm very vocal. It's there's so many tools out there, and one does not need medicine to actually unravel. There's so many other things out there, so many other. Practices that don't involve taking a psychedelic preparation. Essentials, right? You're set in setting. How's your mindset? Where are you doing it? Somatic resources, what's available to you, for what you need, for your body, for caring for yourself. How familiar are you with your nervous system? You know, for me, I can share. I have a part in my nervous system that is chaos, and when it comes online, I can feel it, and I can say, Whoa, that's chaos. I need to back off, knowing your intention, slow pacing, having boundaries, practicing consent, clear agreements, integration, essentials right afterwards, taking some time not just Go back to daily life journal, doing some somatic reflection, massage, right, acupuncture, parts work, spending time in nature, micro actions, continued support, and allowing the process to unfold naturally. And so who does this you know, who does this approach serve best? So you know it could be for anyone in which it's it's safe for and there is reduced risk for someone who is confident in receiving it. And if you have a sensitive nervous system like me, if you have a history of trauma, many of us, if you're newer to psychedelic work, maybe if you're on the older side of age, if your body isn't a bit more of a fragile place, maybe if You're in hospice or palliative care, if you're seeking emotional depth, if you're recovering from a difficult journey and you're still seeking to work with medicine and anyone who wants sustainable growth, right? And so bridging the science somatics and the spirit, right? So we touched upon science, the nervous system, psychology. And, you know, it all triangulates. There's it all comes the center when we put these tools together and we put these modalities and what works for best. And so, you know, sometimes we can reach for different things when those things serve us best,

Josh Jupiter  27:50

you know, and so, you know, capacity can be a thing. And especially, you know, if you live here in New York City, where things are really busy, there's a lot going on. Capacity is a thing, and so being aware of what your capacity is doing a small, little gentle experience, or getting on a plane and going to Peru and drinking Ayahuasca for 12 nights, not needing as much drama, not overwhelming, not bypassing, not needing or seeking the mystical escapism, slow, steady nervous system transformation. And you know, lastly, it's this is all very new stuff, and there's a lot of emerging science and stories and things developing. And, you know, it is, you know, I think in five years, things are going to be very different out in the world. And with that, thank you very much. So thank you for attending. Here's a QR code you could scan it. Go to my website, Brooklyn, balance.org, here's my email address if you'd like to reach out. You know, I'm on social media. One person mentioned that they found me on Instagram, and I'd like to open it up to a Q and A

Speaker 1  29:38

Hi. Thank you very much. Can you repeat the name of the doctor? Dr, Ben Malcolm. Ben Malcolm,

Josh Jupiter  29:51

yeah, spirit, pharmacist,

29:56

thank you.

Josh Jupiter  29:57

Yeah, you're welcome. And you know, if anyone just has any reflections to those are welcome. Any any thoughts.

Speaker 2  30:10

Josh, I have a quite I have a question. Yeah, yeah. Thank you so much for all this information is super helpful. And you know, you're talking a lot about the nervous system, and like, making sure we don't kind of overloaded the nervous system. And, you know, like watching out for that. And I think just through my own experiences, and just for me to know, because I do sometimes work with people with psychedelics, what are the kind of signs for that you're looking for as you're working with someone with the low dose What are you? What are you? What are you kind of looking for? How do you know that a person like, how do you help the person know when the nervous system is like, overloaded? Does this question make sense?

Josh Jupiter  30:59

Yes, it does so you know the the term trauma informed is, is often heard and thrown around and used, and it's, it's having a trauma informed approach, being present and noticing any signs of a trauma response, noticing signs of any overwhelm, any any struggling, you know, Let's say somebody shaking, but they're they haven't taken anything indicates nervousness, so monitoring the body, monitoring the system and asking simple questions too. And you know that is also why I emphasis a lot doing a lot of preparation. So for me, you know, with the people I work with, I typically spend a minimum of two and a half hours of get to know each other time before we enter some sort of container to even begin talking about doing anything safety first. And, you know, there's a lot to talk about there, but that I that would be like the one thing I would share at this moment, Trevor. Or yeah, Trevor,

Speaker 3  32:43

hi, Joshua, hi. Thank you for thank you for your talk today. And we, we had our paths crossed about three or four years ago, and we were both taking some of Daniel's classes together, but just, it's really nice to see you again. And my question is around alcohol use disorder. I've been reading some articles where, particularly five DME, so is very good for AUD. Have you seen any of that? And have you, or could you leave resources or links to any information you've seen around AUD in the treatment?

Josh Jupiter  33:23

I personally have not seen anything at this time. It's something I'd be very interested to learn about and look into. I'm gonna look into that, for sure. But at this moment, I personally don't, I don't have any information on that, okay, thank you. Yeah, there's, um, you know, what I would be curious about, though, is if there was data coming out of it, and, you know, research, what was done in conjunction with the medicine? What type of preparation were they doing? What kind of container was it? What kind of integration and therapy were they doing? Because, you know, often we can hear stories of, you know, someone might say, I took mushrooms and I don't want to drink anymore, great. And there can often be a bit more to that than just having the experience. But if I had to guess one thing, I would say, you know, perhaps the medicine gave some of these folks more capacity to deal with the issues behind the the the issues. Jeff.

Speaker 4  35:01

Thank you. Sorry about that. Yeah, thanks, Josh and thanks for sharing about your experience too. I'm curious. So after you had that experience, how long was it until you kind of were called to either do that medicine again or to start learning how to serve your Sedona experience.

Josh Jupiter  35:24

So in Sedona, I did not work with five Meo. I worked with a couple of other medicines. Okay? I worked with five Meo, perhaps about a year later, and what I'm hearing from you is, how long did it take me to get comfortable serving, you know, particular medicines, and honestly, it's when I felt comfortable with it, with me, When I felt like, you know, I understand this. I have capacity. I feel that I am in consent with myself, and that I can collaborate with others to do so.

Speaker 4  36:13

Perfect, perfect. What you mentioned about titrating, and I know you work with low five do you do? I mean, are the sessions any longer? Is it like multiple low hits? I mentioned that that I, you know, I've had to step wise, which a lot of the principles that you spoke about are very similar for the same reasons, just gentleness and regulating nervous system and whatnot. So do Do you also go through deeper experiences with your clients?

Josh Jupiter  36:54

Not at this time? No, you know, and there's, there's only so much of this kind of thing that I'm open to talking about publicly and and if you know you want to do a call with me one on one, we could

Speaker 4  37:11

do that. All right, that's great. I'm sorry, no, no,

Josh Jupiter  37:15

it's totally cool. It's expected in this kind of thing.

Speaker 4  37:18

Yeah, it's great. I love this medicine. I think it's incredible. I think it's really important. And I think this low dose is such a way to go, because I had an experience of Bufo, where the facilitator had and had a lot of psychedelic experience. And the facilitator asked me how I like to go in. I said, pretty heavy. And he took me in so heavy that I had the most terrible experience and didn't want to touch a medicine for two years, until I learned about low dose. So I definitely can understand that.

Josh Jupiter  37:50

Yeah, thank you for sharing. Thank you, Josh.

Speaker 5  37:56

Jason, hey there, Josh. Thank you so much for this. This really great talk I have. I have two questions, if that's okay. One had to do with the titration and SSRIs. I mean, my sense is that SSRIs are dangerous if there's an MAO inhibitor component, but that they may simply blunt the experience or not for the tryptamines. So I would think that this would be perfect for somebody who is on an SSRI, because you start low and you could titrate up slowly. And I just wondered what your thoughts are around that. And I don't know if I should ask my second question,

Josh Jupiter  38:35

so I'm going to answer this question first. I don't have any thoughts on that, because I'm not a doctor. I don't give medical advice. So that I would refer you to Dr Ben Malcolm for that question. I'm a doctor. Oh, cool. Or you, but I don't, I don't, I don't give any thoughts on that kind of thing.

Speaker 5  39:00

Sorry, sure. Fair enough. Second question had to do with you talked to this is somewhat appropriate for someone who has a sensitive nervous system, which is really interesting, and we talked a little bit about the trauma response in the nervous system. But also, I know that gabriemonte talks about the highly sensitive person. It's sort of a trait that's your whole life and is unmodifiable. And I wonder what your thoughts are on, on sort of that distinction, and are there people who are just inherently highly sensitive, rather than being triggered, for you know, from trauma per se.

Josh Jupiter  39:38

So I was walking down the street the other day a few weeks ago, and I saw I saw Gabor Mate on my block, and I had an opportunity to thank him for his service. I love his work, and I identify. Is a highly sensitive person. I identify as neuro spicy, like slightly on the neuro divergent scale, and I identify as having a sensitive nervous system. And you know, some of us have trauma with a capital T, and some of us have trauma with a lowercase t. You know, I would say it varies, because there are times in our lives where someone might have, like a significant amount of trauma, but be they're more grounded and they're less sensitive. And then that might change. And then there's times where someone might have less trauma, but they have a lot of stress, and they have a lot of things going on, and they're way more sensitive in that state. Me, personally, I seek to meet people where they are in that moment. And there simply are some people who are just very, very sensitive to all things at all times. It's complex. This is, this is a talk of its own right here. What was the last part of your question?

Speaker 5  41:27

I think it related to exactly what you're addressing, okay, just the highly sensitive parent quality of somebody that's just part of their phenotype, or is that a trauma response?

Josh Jupiter  41:42

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I never thought about that, to be honest. That's a great question, and I would love to talk more about that in the future.

Speaker 5  41:58

Well, from your experience, when you're talking about the sort of spicy nervous system, and you've worked with this sort of gentle but helpful medicine, do you feel that it has changed your sort of neurodivergence to the extent that you want to change any of that?

Josh Jupiter  42:17

I would say that it the medicines in general, and this one too, have helped me have more more mindfulness, more clarity, more presence, and have brought more awareness to my nervous system, so that outside I can do somatic practices, I can do the work to live a better life with outside of the medicines. Does that make sense?

42:52

Makes a lot of sense. Thank you so much. Cool Mark.

Speaker 6  42:59

Hi, a couple things. I just wanted to thank you for emphasizing the importance of low dose, which I think applies to all medicines. And I've had occasion to hear Bessel van der Kolk talk about that too, and he's a strong advocate of low dose psychedelics with MDMA and ketamine and other medications. And in in I find it's useful both in in treatment context of working with people who are trying to overcome trauma or substance dependency, and as well as with people who are looking for personal growth and just to assist in, in a in a deeper psychoanalytic approach. And I think, I think the importance of it lies in, in the questionable value of so called ego death, ego dissolution. I think it can, on some occasions, be a powerful experience that can lead to change. But I think a lower dose that doesn't produce that allows the allows the the normal ego default mode network, to participate in the psychedelic experience. And and there's, there's a sense of of sort of that being included in the selves. The. Are experiencing it and benefiting from it. So I've become an advocate for for low dose work in general. I've never experienced five Meo, but certainly your your talk about it inclines me towards that. I'm wondering also about a kind of a medium dose. I don't know what that would be, but something maybe for people who've experienced the kind of softening, calming effects that low dose has, and looking to, you know, turn the turn the dial up from three or four to a five or something like that, without going into, you know, the Full psychedelic experience.

Josh Jupiter  45:59

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for sharing. I'm happy to hear that low doses have benefited you. And it's, you know, it's always great to hear someone appreciate Bessel van de cults work and talks about these sorts of things. Medium doses. It's, you know, it's, it's like going up for the second cup of ayahuasca. If you know, when the shaman says, Hey, do you want more sort of thing? It's, it's a calling, and it's when one is ready. And it's also, step by step two, right? As you said, you know, going from a three to a five. How much time does the individual need for that? Does it need to happen at the same time? No, it can happen at a different time. It could happen a year later. And it's also some, you know, many facilitators do a tight titration process, I think I saw in the chat, someone mentioned the titration process of building up to a full experience as well. So that's something that some practitioners facilitators do to build people up from a low to a medium to a high dose and and perhaps with that, they might even achieve an ego dissolution as well, or or maybe not. I think, you know, again, I think each person is very unique to their own experience and that different. There's different strokes for different folks, and one milligram of this might make this person feel that, but one milligram of that might make this person feel this. So it's it's a it's very interesting these things, you know. And again, thank you so much for being here and for sharing that about yourself, and it's great question. Thank you, Brian, did you have your hand up?

Speaker 7  48:11

I did, but you take you took care of quite a lot of what I was going to say. But I want to thank you for this really thoughtful introduction to low dose five, I really, really appreciate that I've had a unique I want to speak to the part about neurodivergence. I recently went through an assessment myself. And there are some ways, and sensorily is one of the ways where, where I definitely have a divergence, and I also have unique experience of getting to witness a lot of five sessions, both in facilitator training and also in group experiences, and where people would would, you know, intentionally take together the same amount at the same time, you know, carefully titrated inhalations and so forth. And in that, you see very quickly that people have a huge range of experiences. Someone on a certain you know, low starter titration may go straight into a trauma response. Other people may be in bliss, and that can even go, as you step up, that some people are always orientated towards bliss, and other people, stuff comes up immediately. I would say, for my own work with five, it's been fantastic for me, but really hard. A lot of people talk about five like they can't wait to do it again, and it's so yummy. It's never been yummy for me, but it's been incredibly useful. And so I just kind of wanted to put that out there that I've seen this broad range of how people react to it, and I. Yeah, it's, I come, come back to that word individual, because it's, it's, I mean, all reactions to almost all substances are fairly individual, but I find this more so than than others I've tried, and I've tried many. So thank you.

Josh Jupiter  50:20

Yeah, you're welcome. Thank you for sharing. I'm curious hearing that. I'm hearing that your sense, one of your senses, is sensitive. Are you open to sharing which one?

Speaker 7  50:30

Oh, that all of my all of the five physical senses, I'm kind of off the charts in terms of needing lower levels of stimulation to get by. So Touch, touch and sound being huge ones, especially, but all of them, I had a, yeah, really thorough assessment done and, and I had two of the seven sort of pillars of a diagnosis, which means I'm just mildly divergent in some ways, and, you know, highly functional, etc, but, but it is something to be considered when assessing for intake,

Josh Jupiter  51:11

you and I have a lot in common. Thanks for sharing that

Speaker 8  51:19

anyone else cool.

Josh Jupiter  51:27

Well, thank

Speaker 2  51:27

you, yeah, is there time? Yeah, I don't know how fully you can answer this question, and I know we got till two o'clock individual, but I was very curious about the term that you use, micro unraveling.

Josh Jupiter  51:40

Micro unraveling, yeah, I'm,

Speaker 2  51:43

can you say more about that? Because I'm, I'm like, Whoa, what? What you know? Yeah,

Josh Jupiter  51:52

right. So, unraveling, right? Maybe for some people, they've walked through life and just said, this is how I am. I can't change anything. And then one day they say, I want to change some stuff. And one day they say, Well, how can I change some things in my life without, you know, the the whole ball of yarn going all over the apartment, the house. So I like to think of a ball of yarn, and, you know, it's, it's set up in a way that's neat, but maybe there's some a few knots inside of it, or maybe there's some tightness, or maybe some things need to be adjusted. And so micro unraveling is, well, we're not going to take the whole ball of yarn apart. We're just, you know, we're going to reach inside just for this little spot, and just pull it a little bit. Wait a little while. Okay, pull a little bit more. Is everything cool? Okay, great. This is the right knot that we want to pull on keep going, rather than, like, you know, going in and pulling on and not why is this not working? Getting all frustrated, and then, oh no, this whole part of the ball of yarn is all messed up. Oh, we gotta go over, you know, so slow unraveling and for and for the for, you know, I'll speak for myself. It's I can sense when my nervous system is a little more unraveled than I'd like like it to be. Maybe I'm having trouble sleeping, maybe I'm a little more agitated, a little more anxious, a little more frustrated, a little more sensitive to noise, less patience. And so, you know, might not be the time for me to unravel a little more. So I maybe I need to, just like, chill out, take it easy for a little bit. Or bring in, you know, bring in a professional sewer, use a sewing machine and such this. This is what I think of when it comes like that, going slow, pulling out, not slowly. That's good. Does that make sense?

54:30

Yes, it totally makes sense. Thank you so much.

Josh Jupiter  54:32

Yeah, you're welcome.

Josh Jupiter  54:40

Anything else, anyone else? Cool? Well, thank you all so much for being here. I'm going to upload a copy later today, and there'll be a follow up email and reach out if anything else. Have a great rest of your day. Thank you so much. You. Thank you, Josh, that was wonderful. You're welcome. Thank you for being here.